I think "Same Sizer" looks ugly because characters are stretched mechanically, so each line has different width. Ideally, the lines should all keep their widths, and the position should be stretched.
I think a better application of "all words have the same size" principle can be seen in Vietnamese calligraphy, which sometimes combines Latin characters with Chinese-adjacent writing style, e.g. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%C4%90%E1%BB%91i_-... (this is written in Latin script split into equal squares)
Huh. I would never have noticed that your example image is actually in Latin script.
Because I don't read Chinese, anything that looks enough like Chinese seems to mentally go into the bin of "I can't understand this anyway." (I guess in this case it would help if I knew Vietnamese because then I would recognize familiar words and syllables in this calligraphy.)
I had the problem that navigating the page in firefox almost set fire to my CPU on my 2yr old linux dev laptop. Really liked the visualisations, though.
God, please don't make websites like this. I have a 1 Gbps connection, with a 1 Gbps network interface. Your server _cannot_ serve a site this large. Every single jpeg image which by design takes up no more than a few hundred pixels on a side when rendered on a screen is transferred over in 4K resolution, at sizes up to 9 MiB. Certain pages take upwards of 15 seconds to load with a total size of >40 MiB!!! I'm aware that it's partially due to the hug of death, but 3 Mbps is actually a respectable serving speed for most small servers, the site itself is just too large!
In non-phoenitic languages, i.e. English, many of these methods are painful, especially "Last is First". See "I", but then it's "In", so you need to mentally backtrack some understanding. See "t", but then it's "that", so if you're subvocalizing to read, you need to reform the phoneme because 't' is a different phoneme from 'th'.
Isn't reading more like pattern recognition than parsing letter-for-letter? It seems to work like that for me. There's also the somewhat famous text where each word's letters are jumbled and people can still read it fluently. Maybe that's not the case for everyone, though, and people have different ways of making sense of written text.
I once attended a short workshop where the person presenting encouraged us to switch between two modes of reading away from sub-vocalizing and into pattern recognition. The result was much faster reading without loss of understanding.
He didn't use those terms but adopting them from this thread - I learned that day that these really are two distinct modes.
Ok, I want the "Hyphenator" layout, but with more than just one word. I want the extra text to wrap around while the font keeps getting smaller to mimic how I used to take hand notes in college and need to shove in some stuff with no space left in the line.
I have some eye issues, namely a lazy eye and double vision. I find same-sizer remarkably easy to read. Easier than standard text, which is very curious.
I almost wonder if the idea could be used as a sort of accessibility mode.
"Last is first" very much reminds me of the custos/custodes seen often in Gregorian chant notation, which come at the end of a line and are a hint of the first note in the next line (so while your eye is finding the start of the next line, you already know the pitch, even though it typically does not include the syllable).
fun read. a few years ago i got pretty obsessed with boustrophedon script, which feels to me in a similar category. still feels like such an elegant solution to 'oh these lines are getting too long'.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon
I find this: https://i0.wp.com/biblequestions.info/wp-content/uploads/202... surprisingly easy to read; although obviously I already know a lot of what's coming, I can still pick up on the working I'm unsure of. That said, words like "debts" still threw me b/c of the 'd' looking like a 'b' and vice-versa.
I wonder if typesetting like this can be combined with https://bionic-reading.com/ ?
The above emphesises text is a regular way, but I reckon you could train an AI on people reading different empesised text, and track where they slow-down or mis-speak; and as such figure out how a different emphesis could improve comprehension (of the text)?
in devnagri script text is aligned at the top of the line instead of the bottom of the line. e.g. https://www.typotheque.com/research/devanagari-the-makings-o.... would be cool to see a version where roman scripts are top-aligned, bottom uneven instead of the other way round
No. Both Torah scrolls and ancient Greco-Roman papyrus scrolls are written sideways, in columns of a consistent width. The rollers are held in the hands.
Modern fantasy depictions of vertical scrolls leave an erroneous impression that the book proceeds in a downward direction, in addition to the cliché use of 'see above' to prefer to anything previously in the text. Hypertext media and text editors further support this misunderstanding by applying continuous scrolling to a document. This confusion is quite new, perhaps as recent as the 1980s.
these layouts break kerning rules. render engines expect horizontal flow, steady spacing. but with same sizer or echoed lines, glyph logic goes off path. spacing's no longer font native, it's forced by layout. font stops being just visual, becomes part of layout logic. whole engine ends up doing things it wasn't ment for. then layout will start mutates typography logic iteslf
that's kind of the point here, i guess. to intentionally find nice ways of breaking rules to achieve some neat effects, to look into what can be done. it's a really neat thing to do.
B) squeeze the individual letters together in a font, extreme negative tracking while they're still distinguishable.
C) substitute frequent short words with symbols and prefix them to the next word, e.g.:
- 'not' with symbol: "!"
- 'and' with symbol: "&'
- 'or' with symbol: "|"
- 'the' with symbol: "`"
- 'a' with symbol: "*"
- 'at' with symbol: "@"
- 'about/around/circa' with symbol "~"
- 'of' with symbol '\'
- 'for/per' with symbol '%'
- 'in' with symbol '#'
- 'to' with symbol '>'
- 'from' with symbol '<'
- 'on' with symbol '^'
- 'as' with symbol '-'
- 'is' with symbol '='
- 'with' with symbols 'w/' & 'w/o' (without)
...
I think "Same Sizer" looks ugly because characters are stretched mechanically, so each line has different width. Ideally, the lines should all keep their widths, and the position should be stretched.
I think a better application of "all words have the same size" principle can be seen in Vietnamese calligraphy, which sometimes combines Latin characters with Chinese-adjacent writing style, e.g. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%C4%90%E1%BB%91i_-... (this is written in Latin script split into equal squares)
Huh. I would never have noticed that your example image is actually in Latin script.
Because I don't read Chinese, anything that looks enough like Chinese seems to mentally go into the bin of "I can't understand this anyway." (I guess in this case it would help if I knew Vietnamese because then I would recognize familiar words and syllables in this calligraphy.)
Fascinating effect.
It does not help that "hoa" is stylized as something resembling の口亽.
Along similar lines, the calligraphy here is quite impressive: https://www.reddit.com/r/language/comments/1gmzro8/what_scri...
I really wanted to see the example you linked, but the link is broken
I had the problem that navigating the page in firefox almost set fire to my CPU on my 2yr old linux dev laptop. Really liked the visualisations, though.
God, please don't make websites like this. I have a 1 Gbps connection, with a 1 Gbps network interface. Your server _cannot_ serve a site this large. Every single jpeg image which by design takes up no more than a few hundred pixels on a side when rendered on a screen is transferred over in 4K resolution, at sizes up to 9 MiB. Certain pages take upwards of 15 seconds to load with a total size of >40 MiB!!! I'm aware that it's partially due to the hug of death, but 3 Mbps is actually a respectable serving speed for most small servers, the site itself is just too large!
In non-phoenitic languages, i.e. English, many of these methods are painful, especially "Last is First". See "I", but then it's "In", so you need to mentally backtrack some understanding. See "t", but then it's "that", so if you're subvocalizing to read, you need to reform the phoneme because 't' is a different phoneme from 'th'.
Just trying to help: "i.e." stands for "id est", which means "that is".
In your text, you should rather say "e.g." (exempli gratia), which means "for instance", "for example".
Isn't reading more like pattern recognition than parsing letter-for-letter? It seems to work like that for me. There's also the somewhat famous text where each word's letters are jumbled and people can still read it fluently. Maybe that's not the case for everyone, though, and people have different ways of making sense of written text.
Edit: Quick search turned up this article about the jumbled-word phenomenon, containing the example text at the top: https://observer.com/2017/03/chunking-typoglycemia-brain-con...
I once attended a short workshop where the person presenting encouraged us to switch between two modes of reading away from sub-vocalizing and into pattern recognition. The result was much faster reading without loss of understanding.
He didn't use those terms but adopting them from this thread - I learned that day that these really are two distinct modes.
Every once in a while I come across something so beautifully stupid that all I can see is the genius behind it, and it fills me with joy. Well done!
Did you try to read it aloud? Your voice instantly becomes robotic :D
Ok, I want the "Hyphenator" layout, but with more than just one word. I want the extra text to wrap around while the font keeps getting smaller to mimic how I used to take hand notes in college and need to shove in some stuff with no space left in the line.
I'd like to see a layout system that maximizes rivers in the text. Lets make reading weird.
I have some eye issues, namely a lazy eye and double vision. I find same-sizer remarkably easy to read. Easier than standard text, which is very curious.
I almost wonder if the idea could be used as a sort of accessibility mode.
Other than a very slight astigmatism, I have no visuals issues, but also found the same-sizer text much easier to read than I thought it would be.
I want to like this, but the page keeps reloading itself every few seconds. It’s really annoying.
"Last is first" very much reminds me of the custos/custodes seen often in Gregorian chant notation, which come at the end of a line and are a hint of the first note in the next line (so while your eye is finding the start of the next line, you already know the pitch, even though it typically does not include the syllable).
See e.g. https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/ancien...
This is horrendous. I love it.
fun read. a few years ago i got pretty obsessed with boustrophedon script, which feels to me in a similar category. still feels like such an elegant solution to 'oh these lines are getting too long'. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon
I find this: https://i0.wp.com/biblequestions.info/wp-content/uploads/202... surprisingly easy to read; although obviously I already know a lot of what's coming, I can still pick up on the working I'm unsure of. That said, words like "debts" still threw me b/c of the 'd' looking like a 'b' and vice-versa.
I wonder if typesetting like this can be combined with https://bionic-reading.com/ ? The above emphesises text is a regular way, but I reckon you could train an AI on people reading different empesised text, and track where they slow-down or mis-speak; and as such figure out how a different emphesis could improve comprehension (of the text)?
Their "imager" tool is really cool, though:
https://alternativelayoutsystem.com/imager/
so cool!
in devnagri script text is aligned at the top of the line instead of the bottom of the line. e.g. https://www.typotheque.com/research/devanagari-the-makings-o.... would be cool to see a version where roman scripts are top-aligned, bottom uneven instead of the other way round
"Same Sizer" is exactly how I feel about justified text
Author made frequent reference to Hebrew text, is there a particular reason historical Hebrew texts uses these methods?
Yes. A combination of being hand copied and the text having no punctuation.
Could it also be an artifact of using scrolls, and needing to sharply delimit 'pages' of text?
No. Both Torah scrolls and ancient Greco-Roman papyrus scrolls are written sideways, in columns of a consistent width. The rollers are held in the hands.
Modern fantasy depictions of vertical scrolls leave an erroneous impression that the book proceeds in a downward direction, in addition to the cliché use of 'see above' to prefer to anything previously in the text. Hypertext media and text editors further support this misunderstanding by applying continuous scrolling to a document. This confusion is quite new, perhaps as recent as the 1980s.
these layouts break kerning rules. render engines expect horizontal flow, steady spacing. but with same sizer or echoed lines, glyph logic goes off path. spacing's no longer font native, it's forced by layout. font stops being just visual, becomes part of layout logic. whole engine ends up doing things it wasn't ment for. then layout will start mutates typography logic iteslf
that's kind of the point here, i guess. to intentionally find nice ways of breaking rules to achieve some neat effects, to look into what can be done. it's a really neat thing to do.
I make it more readable I want to squash the words further so the english becomes more logographic by:
A) using an alphabetic shorthand ike superwrite: https://www.reddit.com/r/shorthand/comments/pttlnn/superwrit...
B) squeeze the individual letters together in a font, extreme negative tracking while they're still distinguishable.
C) substitute frequent short words with symbols and prefix them to the next word, e.g.: - 'not' with symbol: "!" - 'and' with symbol: "&' - 'or' with symbol: "|" - 'the' with symbol: "`" - 'a' with symbol: "*" - 'at' with symbol: "@" - 'about/around/circa' with symbol "~" - 'of' with symbol '\' - 'for/per' with symbol '%' - 'in' with symbol '#' - 'to' with symbol '>' - 'from' with symbol '<' - 'on' with symbol '^' - 'as' with symbol '-' - 'is' with symbol '=' - 'with' with symbols 'w/' & 'w/o' (without) ...
This applied to a fictionally motivated glyphs, like Klingon, would be interesting.
Of course it's Swiss.
immediately ordered the book
fascinating checkout flow
These are so creative!
I love "Same Sizer" for titles and design, and I don't think I'd hate "Fill the Space" in body text if glyphs (such as the key) were used.
[dead]
Thanks, I hate it. /s
Reminds me of the Dotsies system for fast reading, only this makes reading slow...
Or just use CSS
https://developer.chrome.com/docs/css-ui/css-text-wrap-balan...This is a set of InDesign scripts. Not CSS.